Chomsky: What is Socialism

sorsis:

inside-illusion:

sorsis:

inside-illusion:

sorsis:

marsthebringerofwar:

kimjongthrilla:

marsthebringerofwar:

Finland is also largely ethnically and almost totally culturally homogeneous. That is, they have a strong national identity.

finland isn’t a socialist country

none of the scandinavian countries are socialist

social democracy =/= socialism

What she said.

Excuse me, but social democracy is socialism as it is one direction of it also known as reformist democratic socialism due to its moderate parliamentary way to influence society instead of radicalism..

Social democracy is not socialism. It’s argued as a path to socialism but at its current stage it is only reformist process. Socialism is only achieved when the workers have direct democratic control over their factories and labor surplus. Finland although with great social programs doesn’t quite fit that description as workers still work for capitalists. 

Now you’re considering co-ownership to be the only idea in socialism and you’d be right, if that’d be so. Socialism also commonly includes values such as community, equality, and satisfaction of basic needs. You don’t need to perfectly fill every single characteristic of an idea to qualify.

Worker ownership of production is the whole point of socialism. I never said it was the only idea, I said it was the main one. Socialists call for equality through the elimination of class distinctions through the collective ownership of the means of production. So if you have a capitalist class still in charge then you don’t have socialism. 

What is a capitalist class in this case? Today the former classes have blended with each other and the line is not as distinctive as it have been and ideas develop. You cannot apply ideas meant of the conditions of 19th century directly to a different society of 21st century. Workers and non-workers can own the production means alike and actually do so far what I’ve seen.
The collective ownership of the production means is a way to achieve the ideas, not the only possible way nor the only absolute state to thrive for. Any socialist is happy when their needs are satisfied regardless of the owner of the production means. Socialism’s whole idea is to improve the living conditions for the working class and roots from the industrial revolution.

What is a capitalist class in this case?- The capitalist class is the class of people who are on the upper tier of society because they own the means of production (I.E the factories and equipment that make everything we use in society). They are not the ones who actively participate in the production of goods or services but are the ones who are allowed to determine what happens to the products or services and also what happens the the surplus off the labor of their workers because they own capital. 

Today the former classes have blended with each other and the line is not as distinctive as it have been and ideas develop.-just because workers dont wear dockworker fatigues and managers don’t have top hats doesn’t mean that classes have “blended”. Just because we both shop at American apparel doesn’t mean that class distinction is somehow gone. 

You cannot apply ideas meant of the conditions of 19th century directly to a different society of 21st century.- First off we were talking about definitions, not applying ideas. also from this question i’m going to assume you’re from north america or west europe. These ideas are critiques of capitalism. Capitalism hasn’t changed in character (unless you count the imperialist stage of growth, change). Just because I don’t work in a factory doesn’t mean that i still don’t have a manager or i’m still not exploited by not having accesses or say to the labor surplus that we the workers produce.

Workers and non-workers can own the production means alike and actually do so far what I’ve seen.- Can you provide examples? and clarify. 

The collective ownership of the production means is a way to achieve the ideas, not the only possible way nor the only absolute state to thrive for. Anton Pannekoek will explain this in better detail than I will.

Any socialist is happy when their needs are satisfied regardless of the owner of the production means.- You really should talk to the I.W.W sometime. 

Socialism’s whole idea is to improve the living conditions for the working class and roots from the industrial revolution.- Yes thats correct. 

(Source: questionall)